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Lesson Introduction
One of the preferred modes of transportation in Italy is the bicycle. This, while environmentally friendly and convenient, is often the cause of congested streets and terrifying, near-death experiences. Well, maybe we exaggerate, but in today's podcast we'll be joining two people as they fly through the streets of a very well-known Italian city. Learn how to express speed and wishes in today's lesson!
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billkaulitzlover says
July 6, 2008
Which word is used more often: Matto or Pazzo?
catherinem says
July 6, 2008
Very interesting question. They're both used very often, though there is some argument about how they're used. Radioitalia.it has a blog where they explore these words, and I find the following snippet to be a pretty good explanation:
La parola pazzo, da cui deriva il verbo è curiosa.
Alcuni sostengono derivi dal latino “patior”, che significa soffrire, altri dal greco “pathos”, con il senso di infermità d’animo. Altri ancora dal tedesco “parzjan” , che vuol dire infuriare... Il matto, che e’ una via dimezzo tra il pazzo e il folle e a volte ha strane pensate...
The verb from which pazzo is derived is curious. Some sustain that it is derived from the Latin word "patior," which means to suffer, others from the Greek "pathos," with a sense of illness of the soul. Some others think it comes from the German "parzjan," which means to rage... The matto, who is a middle road between the pazzo and the folle, and sometimes has strange thoughts...
Think of it like this: there is a line. At one end there is the totally un-hinged, out-of-his-mind crazy person. At the other end, there is the person who is a bit nuts, doesn't live in the same 'place' as us normal people. In the middle is the matto.
I realize that you didn't ask about the origins of these words, but I think they're fascinating and I hope you all enjoy this rambling post!
anna8 says
July 6, 2008
Um, Catherine, I'm sorry to be such a dolt, but I can't quite see which end of the spectrum is which -- I mean is il pazzo "just a bit nuts" while il folle is "out of his mind crazy"? Or the reverse?
(I actually share your fascination with word origins so I enjoyed your post very much)
Another question -- the imperative form "non passare"
Is this used only with the negative?
Does it matter whether you are speaking familiarly, formally, to one person, or more than one person?
Ciao!
catherinem says
July 6, 2008
Pazzo is out of his mind crazy (lacks rationality) and folle would be more like officially nuts. Sorry about not clarifying earlier!
marcod says
July 6, 2008
In Italian there are different imperative forms according to who is being addressed.
- The TU imperative (aff. passi / neg. non passare) is used to address someone in a fmiliar way.
- The LEI imperative (aff. passi / neg. non passi) is used to address someone formally)
- The NOI imperative (aff. passiamo / neg. non passiamo) is used to make suggestions (passiamo da via Verdi! let's pass by via Verdi
>> Negative imperative: NON + normal imperative form, except for TU imp. (formed with NON + infinitive);
>> LEI imperatives are identical to their present subjunctive form.
sonobono says
July 7, 2008
Fascinating conversation; thanks much; incidentally, the Ponte Vecchio is in Florence; ciao.
missworldtraveler says
July 7, 2008
Marco, I think you were reading my mind. So, since you asked, parle a piu piano, please.
NOTE: I know for native and advanced students they were not speaking too fast, but for me, they were just a teensy-weensy too fast.
I love ItalianPOD!!
anna8 says
July 7, 2008
Thanks Catherine. So folle means "mad" in a clinical sense...got it!
And Marco, thanks so much for the explanation of imperative forms. I actually pasted it into a comment in the Italianpod grammar under "verbs" so it will be there for everyone.
Ciao ragazzi!
michele says
July 7, 2008
ciao ragazzi,
I'd say that pista is the typical expression used by someone skiing in a poor manner, while rushing, without any control, straight along a ski slope (pista da sci), among the other terrified skiers!!
kylep says
July 7, 2008
Piano, è la stessa parola che in "pianoforte"? Ho senso. Un pianoforte può suonarsi piano o forte.
(Is that right? I'm trying to figure out how to put sentences together.)
So then does pianoforte simply come from the two words piano and forte? Does this happen a lot?
michele says
July 7, 2008
hi kylep@,
yes it is, because in Italian piano means slowly, but also quietly, referred to a low acustic level.
So a pianoforte is exactly an instrument on which you can play both piano and forte (loudly), and you wrote it in a perfect Italian.
Let me add only that piano and forte are two common words of the international musical terminology, which mostly comes from Italian.
anna8 says
July 7, 2008
Ciao michele e kylep,
My sense is that it is not uncommon to form words from two units of meaning or morphemes, but usually those morphemes are complementary in meaning. That is, one enhances or explains the other. For example, there's terremoto, earthquake [earth + movement] or cassaforte, safe [case + strong].
However it seems that words composed of opposite or disparate elements like pianoforte [soft+loud] or chiaroscuro [light+dark] or terraqueo [land+sea] are rather special and the process of formation is less common.
I don't know, it's just fun to speculate :-)
michele says
July 7, 2008
... non solo divertente, è anche interessante!
BTW terraqueo is an "high level", literary word, usually together globo (globe) in globo terraqueo (the Earth), quite rare if not impossible to listen in all days speech.
Chiaroscuro is a more common word, coming from painting terminology, but also having a figurative meaning.
thanks for your suggestion...
Cornelia says
July 7, 2008
Hi Catherine,
I share your interest in etymologic roots of words. As a native German I am unable to recognize the German "parzjan" that you mention.
From which sort of German does this stem from, Mittelhochdeutsch / Middle High German (1050-1350)?
catherinem says
July 7, 2008
I believe it comes from Old High German Althochdeutsch (OHG). The spelling of the word is sometimes "barzjan" sometimes "parzjan."
Not so sure about the details but that's what I could gather from a bit of digging. Hope it helps!
marcod says
July 11, 2008
Hey, good job Sonobono, in fact Ponte Vecchio is in Firenze (Florence), and it's the one on our lesson pic. here's another image of it.
sonobono says
July 13, 2008
Grazie, Marco; molta bella.
lunetta says
July 13, 2008
I just want point out that it's not everywhere in Italy that bicycles are preferred. In Palermo you see the occasional pazzo riding a bicycle among the cars and i motorini but most people wouldn't dream of riding a bicycle there. It's my impression that the use of bicycles is quite regional and the further south you go, the less used it is.
rogerdouglas says
August 21, 2008
I was going to ask when piano is used instead of lento, but I see piano is an adverb and lento is an adjective. So I guess that's a dumb question - sorry.
amalita says
November 9, 2008
hi all,,
after my trail is finished what shall i do to continue in this site i literaly love it ,,
thanxxxx